Creative Moment Podcast — Transcript
“This week I’m pleased to be catching up with Fergus Hay, CEO and partner of Leagas Delaney London on the Creative Moment podcast where we talk about creativity and Fergus’s perspective on it.”
Ben — Creative Moment
Welcome to the Creative Moment Podcast. Brought to you in association with marketeers. This week, I’m pleased to be catching up with Fergus Hay, CEO of Leagas Delaney London from the creative moment podcast where we talk about creativity and Fergus’s perspective on it. Fergus has been at Leagas Delaney for three years before that he was at BBH in London at Ogilvy and Mather in Asia. Leagas Delaney is a 25 million pounds independent, creative business, with offices in London, Shanghai, Los Angeles, Milan and Hamburg. Clients include Patek Philippe, Adidas, and Builder AI. Fergus, welcome to the Creative Moment Podcast. There was a pre-show chat. I thought it was interesting, he said products are increasingly commoditised, which I thought was a punchy thing to say. So frankly the brand is more important than ever. But your point being, I think I don’t put words in your mouth that creativity, should be seen as an important tool for business when actually I think perhaps brands, marketeers, are seeing it as an indulgence currently,
Fergus Hay
You know Ben it’s true, and the thing is that’s not a new tenant, it’s not a new thought. And if you look at the inception of marketing, you actually go back to the 1800s in America. And what happened is, if you were a family-owned company that made mugs of tea, just like the one you were drinking now your market was your local town so let’s say you’re in Memphis your market would be Memphis. And then as railways got put down and roads got put down your market got bigger, so you can sell your cups of tea, your cups to the state of Tennessee then to the southern states and then to the United States of America. So by doing that you’ve got access to more people. And in order to reach more people you have to persuade them and convince them that your mugs are better than your neighbours mugs or even better and better than mugs, they know from their local district. And so you need an idea, you need something that engages with them emotionally, that talks to their heart and their soul to build a brand that they can identify with. And that’s what enables you to separate yourself from your competitors. And the truth is that hasn’t changed, you know, the markets have got bigger, the world has gotten more connected products pop up every day and most products are very very very very similar to their competitors. So as you pursue growth as a marketer and business owner, you need to persuade consumers that they should pick your mug over someone else’s mug and they should pay more money for that mug. So, there is not a business on the planet that is not asking for growth right now. Every company is asking for growth. And the thing that really differentiates them and enables them to get growth is persuasion and a creative idea that enables people to identify with it. So I think it’s more powerful than ever today, and I do think that people have slightly lost sight of that.
Ben — Creative Moment
And behind your point is that you think that whoever is buying that creativity, be it CEOs, CCOs, CMOs are taking a too commoditised approach to buy creativity. I’m sensing there’s something going wrong within the process at the moment is that the people aren’t sufficiently putting a sufficient investment in time into creativity to make it do that do what they needed to within the increasing sales with their products,
Fergus Hay
I think there are many wonderful big local brands, global brands that absolutely believe that creativity gives them an unfair advantage, some sort of advantage over their competitors that their competitors don’t have. And there are incredible brands out there, here in the market like Meerkat to global luxury brands like Patek Phillipe which we’ve worked with for 24 years, who believe passionately that persuasion through a creative idea can get you more customers willing to pay more for your product. Equally, I think that the landscape has changed a lot over the last 10 years, and the marketing choice for marketers is huge so many different levers, you can pull from bottom of the funnel stuff like programmatic media to tops of the funnel stuff like broadcast media and highly trackable digital media, to then also customer experience like once you’ve acquired a customer what is all the touchpoints across the product, across the retail, and across the digital experience that you need to reach people on. And amongst all of those options, it’s quite easy and understandable to lose the connective thread of an idea. Sometimes the idea gets kind of cut in the communications path. Give me a creative thought, and I am going to test it and stick it in an ad. But the real creative thought lives across all of that customer experience. And there are companies that really understand that and really deploy it and that’s why they win. So a great example is the FinTech category, so if you take fintech. Just open your eyes to London buses at the moment, every single London bus is covered in an ad promoting some sort of new financial technology products. But the truth is you have no idea what they do. They all are very functional but they’re very, not very persuasive at all. But there is one that stands out. And that’s a Klarna Klarna which is a buy now, pay later, and fintech you can go to a store you can buy a piece of clothing and you’ll pay over a three month period for that piece of clothing, they said, Do you know what we’re all about taking the friction out of buying stuff, all of the pain and the hassle of how do I afford it and how can I spread the payments and they built that brand on smooth, and that’s in their advertising that’s in their shareholders, they got Snoop in there, then that’s also in the app itself. The design of the app it’s throughout their entire customer experience. And that’s why loads of consumers use it, they stick with it, Klarna is worth billions, and they’ve actually smashed the market so I think there is loads of opportunity for companies that believe in creativity and who understand the full spread and power of it and how it can give them an unfair advantage.
Ben — Creative Moment
So if for that example to work, it works when you look at the best examples of creativity, who do you think is buying that internally, within the client, is it this is a CMOs, the CCOs, because your right if it gets watered down, to become an ad or marketers perspective, it doesn’t always have the right result does it,
Fergus Hay
You know what I’ve learned is agencies we get quite defensive, you know, Rome is burning. No one’s buying our craft and our product. And then we want to pick on a person who we should sell to, should we sell to the COO the CMO the CEOs C of 2 Threepio, but the reality is, you step out of that and look at the character of the company. Do the values in the company value creativity? And if they do, then that’s a business that you can deploy creativity throughout its communications and its customer experience. Ikea is a creative business, Lego is a creative business at the heart of it. They bring a creative product into the market themselves that consumers buy and use a huge value. So you know that they value creativity, and if a business values creativity, then it doesn’t matter who you’re selling it to individuals because it’s in the values of the organization. If a business doesn’t value creativity, and it’s not in their core values, then it’s very hard to align your interests to their interests, or trying to sell them something that you think is valuable that they don’t think is valuable. So my counsel what I’ve learned the hard way and by making lots of mistakes is before you even think about who to sell it to and what the answer to the brief is you have to look at the company, you have to speak to the senior stakeholders, you have to listen and listen to what kind of company are they and what matters to them. And if creativity matters and if persuasion matters and if emotional relevance matters, then you know that you can help them achieve their goals with the craft that you’ve got. Okay, now the
Ben — Creative Moment
We’ve seen over the last 10 years or so, there are more channels than ever. And they seem to keep coming don’t they? And most of those being digital channels and digital channels create data and the potential for micro-targeting. Where do you think on that road on that journey? Are we becoming overly reliant and obsessed by data, to the detriment of the wider result?
Fergus Hay
Data means everything and nothing. You know, amazingly, when you went into a pharmacy 200 years ago to buy some seltzer you were giving data to the pharmacy owner because he would see Mr Megan’s come in on the third Thursday of every month with a stomach complaint, probably related to his diet and stress. It’s just we didn’t call it that then. So we have been collecting as marketers, information on consumer trends and activity since the beginning of marketing. The difference now is of course the scale of it, and the massive opportunity to capture data and process it. When used poorly. It’s a complete turnoff. You’ve seen it, You’ve gone to go and book a holiday, you’ve booked your holiday you’re really excited. And then for the next six weeks, your entire social feed is full of people sending you a holiday that is completely useless and very annoying. I once accidentally went and contrary to my beliefs went to a Tottenham Hotspur website by accident. Since then, I’ve been getting Tottenham ads, I’m a season ticket holder at Arsenal. It’s very distressing and very very off-putting to receive that kind of information. So, I think poor use of data is destructive to brand equity and Consumer Relations. Good use of data is unbelievably powerful. So what are examples of good use of data? Well, isn’t it brilliant that when I go onto Spotify they can cross-reference me music based on my tastes? That’s a fantastic customer experience because it’s marketing their product and their services and their cross-selling me and upselling my subscriptions, but it’s tailored to what I want and I find that brilliant
Ben — Creative Moment
It’s interesting, I don’t see because taking you on the Tottenham Hotspur advert point to an Arsenal fan which is a nice way of thinking about it, isn’t it, I don’t quite know how we get out of that, I don’t see anybody reversing back up the road to say I tell you what, that’s not an appropriate use of data. And, you know, this would. I suspect we’re still going to be seeing inappropriate adverts on various different websites for some time to come,
Fergus Hay
you know, you’re right, and there’s a scale on that right. So, if Tottenham Hotspur is trying to advertise to me, it is a waste of their media dollars. Maybe that’s a good thing for me. I’m wasting Tottenham’s money, fewer signings for them. And in the end, the commercials that will drive that
Ben — Creative Moment
There are so many different levels of data that aren’t there. So let me give another example, I had to ring up my kids’ school the other day. And I can’t remember their phone number, obviously. And so I googled them and now every time I go on the internet I see an advert for my kids’ school. Well, my kids already go to that school, so it’s a complete waste of time for them, but I don’t see a mechanism that allows the Internet to work out that my kids currently go to that school. Maybe at some point, that’ll come along, but it needs more data and the whole thing just get so complicated and involved,
Fergus Hay
Yeah, that’s inefficient for them and for you and that’s what I mean is that the commercials drive it, because ultimately when they look at their programmatic media effectiveness sheet and they see that the fifth reason to stop advertising Whitney, they just changed the A B testing and they changed the profiling. I think the question becomes really, really, societal when you think about elections. And, you know the what you’ve seen in the Trump election what you’ve seen in the Brexit election is the manipulation of data by people who have a really powerful societal purpose and not a good one to manipulate what you or I see in our, in our social media feeds, and they are masterful at it, and the businesses doing that are unbelievably smart at it. And the only people that can regulate that. The only people that can regulate a fair, balanced stream of information are the publishers, and that is Google, Facebook, and Amazon is the world’s third-largest search engine. These three people need to take responsibility, they need to buy into regulation and police it. And right now they don’t care about regulation, Facebook got an enormous fine they flicked it off, it wasn’t even half a day’s trading for them. And so there is no power to police the publishers, and the governments are 10 years behind, they’re too slow to catch up with this stuff. So you raised a point which I think is bigger than commerce and is more about the influence and propaganda of society and the trust immediate that goes with it and then whose responsibility is that, and for me it’s it’s those big tech who currently run punishable by fines and fines,
Ben — Creative Moment
Well the government within would love to have responsibility for it but they’re kind of powerless because it goes across international borders so, they can’t do it fast enough. That’s the reality is they can’t regulate fast enough, you know, but your point being that the levels of trust in the media and brands and government are all being impacted by inappropriate use of data
Fergus Hay
That plus plus plus right so for sure people don’t like being chased through their digital footprint by brands trying to sell them stuff. If it’s not useful to my point about it, people don’t mind. Well it might have been useful for a moment in time, but that moment in time has long since gone yeah, and you’re still being fed this stuff, but I’ll give you a working case study, there’s a great business called Kid Daddle, which is a platform as a parent, that enables you to go on to it and they curate experiences for you and your family to do on a Saturday, and it can go based on your need and you know how far you want to travel, do you wanna spend any money, do you want to outdoors do you want to be indoor, and every time you use it, it learns about what you like and then it repopulates the kind of experiences that you want to spend with your family, for me that is a fantastic use of data because it is solving a problem. I’m time poor, I haven’t planned for my kids weekend, I want to spend quality time with my kids to enrich their childhood to make them better people in the future, and the use of data for that is shortcutting me to do it. And I think if you can apply that kind of principle which is tailor things to what I want, and repeat it and so it’s useful like Spotify do, then I think data is an amazing thing to do and an amazing opportunity for creativity and
Ben — Creative Moment
Just moving on from data looking at the creative world, if we take what’s going on in the creative world currently not necessarily just in London just possibly more broadly than that. I don’t, I might be wrong with this impression so I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but I get the feeling that you’re, you’re not overly impressed by the sound of creative work coming out at the moment and I think I see some good stuff. But where do you see or how would history judge the creative work coming out of marketeers at the moment.
Fergus Hay
So, I think you have to look at what the role of creativity is supposed to be. If you go all the way back to the story about America, ultimately, creativity needs to emotionally engage people and persuade them to follow, identify with a brand and ultimately purchase a product. I think there’s creativity, creative work out there that does that. I think there are brands that have built incredible relevance, that do that and we can talk about the brands at the moment. And I think there’s an awful lot of creative work out there, that is actually not the fault of the creative it’s the fall of the strategy, I think, which is like a cork bobbing in the ocean. It’s like moving frantically but going nowhere. And there’s lots of money out there, there’s lots of noise but I don’t know if it’s really impactful and if it really moves me. And if you look at creative work that really is impactful. It’s one it’s creative work that is on strategy, and it’s got a personality to it, and it cuts through,
Ben — Creative Moment
But the type of creative work that does that, like moves our perception of a brand, compared to the kind of creative work that sells more stuff. It’s a different kind of creative isn’t it so I get does it depend on what you’re trying to do.
Fergus Hay
That’s a good example. So, Nike built a brand on releasing your inner athlete, you have no sense of purpose for a new young generation 40, 50 years ago, to get out and seize the moment and just do it. And they decided that they were going to be a really culturally relevant brand. So whether it is representing the racial protests, whether it is to, even now what they’re doing with Kobe Bryant, which is kind of taking a moment to represent a societal legend. They have always bridged the functionality of products, a sense of brand affinity and then big cultural statements, and the Colin Kaepernick creative work that they did, and also the Megan Rapinoe work post the Women’s World Cup, that we believe was unbelievable work. That is an example of a brand that is built on its brand values, tied into something that is culturally and socially relevant with outstanding work from Wieden Kennedy. And it shifted units. So the sales of Nike post, the Colin Kaepernick work absolutely soared in the US and I think that’s where you can.
Ben — Creative Moment
You can definitely do it, but they’re not buying it. They’re not buying it. They’re not, I mean if you build a brand you, you’re more than likely to sell more products I totally get that, but quite a bit of the creative I see there seems to me is on the, let’s try and sell more stuff, rather than a brand-building element is that, so that’s true, but that’s filling a purpose is all I mean, is that I don’t know it’s probably not it’s not brilliant creative work, but it’s, it’s doing what somebody wanted it to do.
Fergus Hay
But there’s quite interesting, creative work that can inadvertently shift products so if you look at KFC, you know when they ran out of chicken. Yeah, and everyone, everyone you know that was wouldn’t have been at a KFC for years but all of a sudden we all wanted the KFC. Yeah exactly right and then they came back with the FCK advertising to say look yeah we ran out of chicken but they turned a really negative brand confidence moment into a kind of positive brand transaction moment. So there are good examples of that. The one thing I would say Ben is I do think that, as an industry, we’re a bit stuck on what we think creativity is. And even if you go and look at the industry trade and how we share moments of creativity, it’s still ads, but really it’s films and ads and social pieces, but I think that there is a definition of creativity that we don’t talk about enough. And it’s where the real creative innovators are in the world and interestingly it’s not in communications, it's in service design, and then we are looking at you know this fourth industrial revolution where we’ve got businesses coming in every day creating digital products and services that are radically revolutionising how we engage with categories. So Spotify obviously early runners, Skype early runners. But today, whether it’s the fact that in three clicks on my thumb I can get a car to come and pick me up at a fixed price without having to use my credit card and it’ll deliver me to the place already predetermined, or whether it’s any digital service or tool that is solving a consumer problem, the creativity in that space is mind-blowing, absolutely mind-blowing, but we don’t spend enough time talking about that. And I think that the definition of creativity is really broadened from the ivory towers of sexy advertising to actually what are the problems that we’re solving and the amount of innovation that’s being made by the new businesses and I would love us as an industry to lean into that a bit more. Rather than focusing on scam ads, they’re going to be a canned line
Ben — Creative Moment
But how would that manifest itself, because that means what you’re, you’re trying to go into startups, and assist them with their ideas.
Fergus Hay
So we do that, so you know we made a big play about 18 months ago to work with really smart venture-backed startups is a wide range, but we’re talking people who have raised significant amounts capital 20 million-plus who’ve got an amazing product and they need a brand but that brand needs to be through the product, it needs to be in the app, it needs to be in how the app communicates its needs to be in the chat service it needs to be in the customer service as well as the communications, and you know when you work with those businesses, and a great one is builder.ai, you know Builder is an amazing business that enables you to create bespoke software if you’re a complete technophobe. And that is a business that is disrupting a category that creates an amazing brand which we have the privilege to work with them on, and it is taking over the market, and that’s where I think the raw creativity of product and service design that comes with brand and consumer insight and empathy can be such an intoxicating mix. And, and so when people talk about the creative world is burning, I would say actually the creative world has never been more fertile if you have that wider perspective on it.
Ben — Creative Moment
You said before that currently, marketers have lost their marbles. What did you mean by that?
Fergus Hay
Just that there are so many choices for them. There are so many digitally driven tools that give you insights into data that automate marketing that super segment consumers that treat them like this kind of neanderthals like commodities that move down a data-informed customer journey to a point of purchase and repurchase. And I just think that if I’m a marketer, I’m overwhelmed by the choices and rather they all sound great when you look at them but you can’t sort of do them all, but imagine you’re a marketer and metaphorical imagine they’re looking at over the hills 1000 orcs charging towards you each selling you a product, or you have highly performative media oh my god if you haven’t got artificial intelligence customer service what are you doing. So all of these suppliers are then sending them these things at the silver bullet that’s gonna change everything. And it’s almost as too much for them to enable so what we often say is look, it’s not about doing everything. It’s about doing the two or three things that will make a big difference to your business distil that to what will line up against your commercial targets will persuade new consumers and build value over time, execute really really well, rather than trying to do everything and ultimately doing
Ben — Creative Moment
So the next part of that question I guess is what therefore does creative success look like for marketers because what you’re sort of saying is not about the marketing output, it’s more aroundthe strategy of the business and the creativeness within the business as a whole,
Fergus Hay
You know, we believe that it’s only an idea, if it creates a business, and, and we say that not because we think it’s particularly original, but we do think it to be true. And ultimately, an idea that’s really powerful can radically enhance a business’s commercial performance which means getting customers willing to pay a premium for the product or service and getting them willing to be loyal and stick with you over time and preferably if you’re really lucky to advocate you to others. That’s the ultimate measure of a powerful brand with a great creative engagement. We’ve been very lucky to work with Patek Philippe for 24 years when we first started working with them, they were a very niche special craft luxury watch brand that was known by a select few and very very much respected. We helped them to find a brand, which is, as a line which is, you don’t own a Patek Phillipe you merely look after it for the next generation. That transformed Patek Phillipe from a piece of jewellery that has a fixed price to something about heritage and legacy, which is priceless. And because we made that transition, Patek Philippe has gone from that niche brand to being the most desired luxury watch brand in the world as voted by the Economist and Wealth X for the last decade. They are an unbelievably esteemed gold standard in the luxury industry, case study as taught at Harvard Business School, and what helped them, obviously they’re an amazing watch manufacturer and greater distributor, but what helped them to do that is they put a creative idea at the heart of that brand that was true to consumers, persuasive to them, and they stuck to it. That campaign has been running for 20 years. And every year, Patek outperformed the market. And I think that’s a great example of how to measure real creative work. It genuinely can change a business, and that’s what we tried to do.
Ben — Creative Moment
So, say, three favourite pieces of creative work, historical or current.
Fergus Hay
Yeah I mean it’s funny as I was thinking about this beforehand and I kind of referenced them here already, but I’ll give some context to it. I think, for advertising for something that cuts through and makes you lean in and take notice, I think the Kapernick work and the Megan Rapinoe We Believe work from Nike is absolutely fantastic. I’m jealous of it. I’d also encourage anyone if they’ve got a second to look for the Lebron James Together film that he made when he went back to the Atlanta Hawks. It’s an unbelievably emotive powerful piece of film that you just can’t help falling in love with. I love the boldness and bravery of what KFC did when they faced real headwinds and spun it around into a positive. In that same bracket, I would put what Burger King did when they challenged McDonald’s on World Peace Day to create the McWhopper. I think that was ballsy, brave, courageous and they executed it flawlessly, which was wonderful. And then I think when you go to the creativity that I think defines this modern day, I look for services and products that are changing how we live. And I just want to reference one which is, you know, not many people may know, but it’s called, switch my bills or Look After My Bills, and basically two guys on the Dragon’s Den, I was gonna say yeah, they pitched it, and it basically switches, your energy or your energy supply regularly to give you arbitrage. So you’ll see the same supplier giving you the same service but for a different price and they don’t automatically. That is incredible creativity because they’ve spotted an unmet need, everyone would like to pay less for that supply and no one thinks about it. Well, you think about it, but you just cannot be bothered. Exactly, but those guys spotted it, they created the product they marketed brilliantly as simply as you can possibly imagine. And they’ve gone gangbusters and I think these are examples of mass media. Examples of defensive PR and aggressive PR and also service design that I think is really really inspiring
Ben — Creative Moment
Just a Leagas Delaney question for my final part really was, I get the feeling, you’ve had you’ve been in what three years, and I get the thing has been a lot of change right in between those two years, quite deliberate aggressive change just to go because you’re coming up to your 40th birthday. I’m sure that’s not all, by design, it’s quite an interesting renewal of the business just talk us through what’s going on.
Fergus Hay
So the agency we set up in 1980 by Tim Delaney, and he left another agency. He was the managing director there, and he set up the agency for a few reasons. Number one, because he didn’t believe the networks were aligned to the client’s interests. Tim believes our job is to drive amazing client outcomes. So number two. He wrote an ad on the first day that said, we’re going to win the business of the network’s like ripping meat from a rotting carcass, which is brilliant, it’s in our culture, and, and it’s coming through today, but he wanted to set up a creatively led agency that was focused on client outcomes. And in 40 years it has gone through amazing chapters, it’s big global agency work, working on the global Adidas brand for 14 years, the brand you see today is very much the brand that we conceive, and it’s had an amazing, an amazing life. And like every business, it goes through peaks and flows. Three years ago, Tim and Margaret, his long term working partner, decided they wanted to go again and bring some, and the next chapter in
Ben — Creative Moment
So it’s interesting isn’t it because of what they’re doing with Tim in his 70s I couldn’t possibly comment on public media. But it’s interesting, at that time of his life he thought right let’s aggressively go again.
Fergus Hay
But here’s the thing, and this is why I’ve learned so much from them is when you own your own business. We’ve talked about this off-camera of when you own your own business, you’re incredibly resilient, incredibly resilient, and you have to always look to what’s next because there are very few global independents, creative agencies Wieden Kennedy, Mother, Leagas, and most others have sold or disappeared. And there is an incredible resilience in the DNA of this business so when I joined. I joined because I could see that amazing heritage which you can’t purchase great culture great DNA and great belief and creativity to solve clients problems, and we wanted to bring it into the modern world and so we looked at the positioning we looked at the client base we looked at the talent, and we did what we thought was right for the values and consistent with the culture of the agency to bring in some fresh energy and target, a new set of clients with a renewed ambition, and it’s very consistent with the heritage of the company, and we’ve been fortunate off the back of that we went from ranked number 55 by campaigns growth tables to rank number three was random before the first year ranked number three the second year were top 10 This year, we’ve been listed as top four independent agencies by The Drum. We’ve won amazing new clients, we’ve competed with the best we’ve won, we’ve lost, we’ve won. Think we want 33 pictures in a row or something, mad like that, and we’ve been able to attract talent who believe passionately in creativity, who want to be in a place where they’re really focused on making a difference for clients and not being sucked up in a big network machine,
Ben — Creative Moment
But it’s interesting that, because you could have turned the dice, which in simplistic terms you’ve done, and it’s worked, but it might not have worked right I mean because every hire is a risk, and finding great talented people is hard isn’t it so it’s was obviously a pretty aggressive approach, and it’s worked but it might not have done right, I mean,
Fergus Hay
and history doesn’t, you know history doesn’t rely on that one but I guess what we did know is if you stay consistent with the values of the company, then you’re not changing a personality. We weren’t trying to be someone we’re not. We really worked hard on understanding what is in the heritage of this company, and we’re very lucky, our founder was still there. Yeah, so every day you feel it from Tim, and then you can sit down and go great, let’s build a modern bigger business based on those values and if we deviate from those values for a second, then the risk comes in but if you stick to those values. If you stick to them religiously, then you can stay pure, and that’s what we’ve tried to do.
Ben — Creative Moment
Did you do anything? Did you try to renew the organization of the business or was it just about the talent and the people, is it, you know, reference I suppose a conversation earlier within the podcast about how there are different channels and all that type of thing and there’s more data and all that, but did you or did you just focus on getting great creatives within the business.
Fergus Hay
It’s a two-step dance. Phase One was, be really brilliant at what we’ve always been really brilliant at, and we really focused on that, but we’ve added customer experience to our repertoire. So, you know, previously, we’re really really really good at communications, and now we look at taking a brand and applying it through the whole CX so that we can engage consumers all the way through that journey. We also looked at developing our own software solution, which we’re really excited about, and also building partnerships with businesses that we respect their values consistent values also have skill sets and we don’t have, so we are not a performance media buyer but we have a great partner in TP who we really respect to a fantastic performance media, you know, we’re not a PR agency but we’ve built relationships with PR agencies and we respect employment employee engagement is such a huge opportunity if you’re a CEO of a business, you build a brand to your right, you absolutely need to engage your employees to the left with it. And so we’ve partnered up with an employee engagement company to do that. So I think that brings more skills to the table without us ever being in a situation where we’re telling a client we can do something when we can’t do it, we wouldn’t do that based on the values of the company. So that’s I think how we’ve, we’ve kind of grown
Ben — Creative Moment
So it's your 40th birthday this year
Fergus Hay
Not mine, well yes it is the agency’s 40th anniversary, which we’re very excited about. So, that really you know when you look at the creative work over 40 years. It’s really inspiring and we cut a reel together so that when people join the company they see the expanse of the creative work over the decades. And, and that’s really exciting to do so we’re going to celebrate it in the Leagas Delaney way, so we’ll do it loud and proud and we’ll enjoy it, and then we’ll get back to work afterwards and keep looking after our clients with great creative work and that’s what we believe in.
